So, I don't know if I am alone in this world, but. . .

"YSI-what can brown do for you" (ysi-what-can-brown-do-for-you)
11/23/2013 at 01:33 • Filed to: Ferrari

I am not a big fan of anything Ferrari has made since the 360 Modena. The FF was pretty sweet, but other than that, all their offerings are kind of just lukewarm. I don't hate them, they are just a bit boring(as compared to other Ferraris of past). I would take a Testarossa over a F12 in a heartbeat, and I am not saying that to be a car hipster. Case and point. . .

It has to be one of the best sounding road going Ferraris ever made!

DISCUSSION (37)

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/23/2013 at 01:42

Don't agree on all points but give me a white Testarossa all day any day. Must have before I die

80CobraKid > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/23/2013 at 01:42

after getting a ride in one a few years ago, I completely agree. Then again this is coming from someone who doesn't own a car newer than 1989. Testarossa+Tubi=heaven.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Manuél Ferrari
11/23/2013 at 01:47

What didn't you agree with? Not getting annoyed, just looking for a discussion.

Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/23/2013 at 01:52

Ferrari peaked with the F40. F355, 456GT, 550 Maranello, F50 and the Enzo are the only cars after the F40 that I like.

All Motor Is Best Motor > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/23/2013 at 02:10

Ferrari's should excite me a lot, but they just kind of don't. I don't even know why. I mean, part of it is how BS they are to own, and all the BS upgrade crap they do to their press cars, but even still, it's not really why I don't like them.

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/23/2013 at 02:12

Kinja'd!!!

saw a black one a few months ago.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy
11/23/2013 at 02:18

That ain't no Testarossa son! That's a 348!

YSI-what can brown do for you > All Motor Is Best Motor
11/23/2013 at 02:20

I think once Enzo died, the company just felt a bit empty. I don't know why, but every subsequent car after that felt less like a Ferrari.

davedave1111 > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/23/2013 at 02:27

The 550 is a contemporary of the 360, so dunno if that counts as 'since'. The 575's not quite as desirable, for me, as the 550, but I'd still take one.

Personally I feel like the 360 is the first of the not-so-nice Ferraris, not the last of the nice ones.

That said, the latest generation of Ferraris are doing a little more for me than their predecessors. I could live with an FF...

YSI-what can brown do for you > davedave1111
11/23/2013 at 02:33

Well the 360 did have the Dino V8(355 had the same engine), which sounded like sex. I think I like the 360 so much because of the fact I really liked it as a kid, some of the 90s Ferrari's were not up to my liking(348, 456). I really only liked the 355 and the F50. Oh and the 575, those things are so classy, its amazing!

Anon > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/23/2013 at 02:43

Have you driven a recent Ferrari?

YSI-what can brown do for you > Anon
11/23/2013 at 02:49

I haven't. I am sure the acceleration would be exciting, but I am not sure if I could fall in love with it. The lack of a gate is a bit worrying, cause I need a manual! I NEED IT! Only one way to find out if I would love one though. . .

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/23/2013 at 03:45

Just that there haven't been any good models since the 360. I am fond of the F430. I have partial ownership in one (with my old man). It is an evolution of the 360. It's a lot of fun to drive. And the last mid engine F car that could be had with a stick.

Haven't driven the 458. But I bet it's a hoot. Their mid engine V8 models are sublime. I'm a fan of everything from the first Dino to the 458.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/23/2013 at 03:45

I generally admire most Ferraris. There aren't many companies that make solely sports cars, and the ones they do are generally epic.

However, my tastes lie on the cheaper end of things, marques-wise. I think the only Ferraris I genuinely want to own are the Dino (but I'd prefer the Fiat variant), the Daytona and the 275 GTB (I was converted by the noise in C'etait un Rendezvous).

KnowsAboutCars > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/23/2013 at 08:13

You are not alone although I wouldn't necessarily say they are boring, it's more like they don't make me think 'that is so cool' or 'I'd want to own that someday'. The last modern Ferrari I really liked was 575 Superamerica.

I think I'm more of a Lambo guy though there are few older Ferraris in my all time favorite car list such as F40, 250 Lusso and 250 GTO just to name a few.

Suuuubaru > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/23/2013 at 08:33

I dunno. I hear the F12 is terrifying to drive, so I'm a little curious...

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/24/2013 at 20:00

It's not the acceleration that is the most exciting part. There are a lot of cars that accelerate fast these days. The exciting thing to me about Ferraris is how everything combines together for the total package. The combination of the N/A sound and throttle response, acceleration, handling, and Italian leather makes the cars feel very special. I do think some of their recent cars have been less than perfect looking. But they've kind of always been hit or miss in the looks department. Ferrari has often taken risks with looks, which results in some models becoming classics and others looking weird. I like that they take risks though. If they didn't then they would be like Porsche and every successor to the Dino would look like a more modern version of the original car. That's OK for Porsche but wouldn't work for Ferrari considering how much they charge for wild and semi-exclusive cars.

Manuél Ferrari > Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager
11/24/2013 at 20:03

What would be interesting is if someone charted the prices of their cars adjusted for inflation. I dunno if the problem is that the cars themselves have peaked. By all accounts the F12 is quite a technological achievement and bonkers to drive. But the prices seem to have gone up so much that it makes even an awesome car seem less special. I wonder how a moderately optioned F12's price looks compared to a moderately optioned 550 when new, when adjusting the 550's price for inflation.

Manuél Ferrari > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
11/24/2013 at 20:06

I was at a car auction yesterday and a Dino failed to hit reserve. The highest bid was about $320,000, and the reserve was set around $340,000. The owner seemed kind of greedy for setting the reserve so high. The Dino has gone up SO much recently. If the owner has had the car for more than 10 years there is no way he wouldn't have made a killing at $320,000

Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager > Manuél Ferrari
11/24/2013 at 20:09

I don't know Ferraris but I know that the Diablos price if adjusted for inflation is roughly the same as that of the Aventador today.

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/24/2013 at 20:14

While the F430 didn't have the Dino V8 it still sounds great. The F355's V8 is one of the best sounding engines of all time, at least to me. The F430's mill still sounds great at WOT and during rev-matched downshifts (which the F1 transmission does for you).

I think the F430 Coupe with the 6MT will be a future classic. It was the last Dino successor with an MT option. Not many of them were sold with the MT. I still feel stupid for not telling my old man to hold out for one with the gated manual. He let me be on the car's title and get occasional usage for $20K. I really don't get to use it much at all because he is making the monthly payments, paying for parts and doing the maintenance, and paying for the insurance. And he doesn't want it parked by valet or parked in spots where it might get dinged so I can't really use it for extended periods of time. But I still don't regret my investment since I get to occasionally drive a Ferrari without any of the day to day costs or hassles of owning one.

Manuél Ferrari > Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager
11/24/2013 at 20:18

Interesting. Might be the same for Ferraris too then. I guess everything just seems so expensive because the dollar has lost so much value. And the crappy thing about that is that most jobs don't pay way more than the same jobs did in the 90s. There has been massive inflation in every area other than wages.

Manuél Ferrari > Nighthawkwill7, Hoon Depot Manager
11/24/2013 at 20:25

Also one more thought - maybe the problem isn't that Ferrari peaked in the mid 90s. Maybe it's just that other brands have stepped up their games so much. Modern Ferraris are undoubtably faster and more reliable than they were before. And they are much easier for tall people to use. If you are over 6' the Ferraris from the 80s won't be very comfortable (but more comfortable than the Countach...).

Cars like the F430 Scuderia and F12 are plenty bonkers. Maybe if it wasn't for all the competition from cheaper cars Ferrari would still seem like they were on top of their game. Cars like the GTR and ZR1 use forced induction and clever engineering to out perform more expensive Ferraris. In the 90s Ferraris and 911 Turbos didn't have a lot of competition from below. There is just so much more competition now.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Manuél Ferrari
11/24/2013 at 23:18

If I am going to own an Italian supercar, it has to come with a gate. The sound is simply amazing! Yeah, a automated one could do it for you, but it doesn't sound quite the same. This sounds a bit more aggressive.

I can say, after hearing a F430 16M, that they do sound absolutely incredible. It is a very metallic sound, but unlike the 458, it sounds real. The 458 sounds more like a video game, which kind of sucks. Noise is what makes a car exciting, well atleast part of the reason.

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/25/2013 at 02:40

Stop depressing me :( I should have tried to convince my pops to hold out for a manual. Well at least I don't have to be too sad since I rarely get to drive it. I guess I'll inherit it one day if he holds on to it long term. But hopefully that would be in 40 years because that would mean he lived past 100.

The 16M is probably my favorite modern Ferrari. It's got the whole package. It sounds like a psychotic beast and it's rare. It's got a drop top but it's light. If I had the money to buy one I would do so now. I think they've depreciated as much as they will and can only go up from here. It's weird that I once saw an ad in AutoTrader for a 16M with a 6MT. The description said it was the only or one of the only 6MTs made (it was a while ago, can't remember if it said it was the only or one of the only). I didn't save the ad so I can't reference it now. I always wondered if the seller was full of crap because I've researched the matter since and not been able to find any mention of a 16M with the MT.

The Scuderia is a great car too. It's not a rare as the 16M. But it can be tweaked to sound exactly the same. I believe they have the same exact engine, but the 16M's exhaust was opened up a bit more than the Scuderia's. I'm not 100% sure, I would need to do some more research to be certain. The nice thing about a Scuderia is that you'd have more protection in a rollover if you took it out on a track (especially if you installed a half roll bar).

YSI-what can brown do for you > Manuél Ferrari
11/25/2013 at 03:09

I really like the FF, it sounds great. Probably the last Ferrari that I really liked the way it sounded. Plus I like the idea of taking the kids in a 660hp crazymobile. I just wish it had a gate.

I don't know anything about the Ferrari automated manual, but the Murcielago one ate clutches like no other. I think a clutch lasted 10K miles on a good day(days). The manual gave a much better number, around 30 to 40K miles. I am assuming the one in the Ferrari was better(it has to deal with less power), plus Ferrari is just better at this sort of stuff.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Manuél Ferrari
11/25/2013 at 03:09

Holy shit. I knew they were expensive, but I was thinking E-Type or good 911 expensive. Something around £80k. Nothing as ludicrous as $300k (£185k).

Manuél Ferrari > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
11/25/2013 at 22:42

The market has gone nuts for them! I wonder if they're overpriced and will see values go down. Or maybe they'll just keep going up, who knows.

I recently heard that the market for any classic 911 up until around the early 70s has gone nuts recently too. Cars have appreciated a ton.

A lot of classic sports cars have seen create appreciation in recent times.

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/25/2013 at 22:58

There was a period of time where the Lambo automated manuals had a bad design that ate clutches. I did read the other day that there was a modification offered to owners of those cars that improved clutch life dramatically. I think the mod was done when the new clutch was installed and it made the clutch last longer like the later models did. The Ferraris have generally had better clutch life. Ours just hit 20,000 miles and is still on the original clutch. I've read that it depends on how you drive the car and whether you live on a hill or not. The worst thing for the clutch is low speed driving on hills. The absolute worst is backup up a steep driveway in reverse.

The biggest advantage of the traditional MT (that we learned from experience) is the lack of hydraulic lines. Italians aren't as precise as Germans when they set things up. We had some air in the lines that caused the transmission to fault. We didn't know that was the problem at first. After doing research and fiddling with it for months my dad got it back on the road. With a regular MT the worst issue you can have is a clutch replacement if the prior owner didn't abuse the car by grinding gears. Also the traditional clutch is a cheaper part to replace.

If I was buying a used Ferrari or Lamborghini I would go MT for sure. More feelz and way cheaper and simpler to maintain.

They're both fun and have their pros and cons. You'd be surprised how fun the F1 transmission can be in the F430, especially when driving fast. I've put the car in race mode before with the F1 set to auto. It's pretty intoxicating to floor it because the car revs exactly to redline before shifting. And it revs so fast that each new redline comes quick.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Manuél Ferrari
11/26/2013 at 02:37

It has gone nuts recently. I can't see it lasting forever, although it's not showing any signs of slowing down.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. It ensures good parts availability (if not price), and the survival of a lot of the cars but it puts them out of reach for many enthusiasts.

I do worry that some of the cars I want that are affordable now will be very, very expensive by the time I get round to buying them. It's happened already to Alfa 2000 GTVs.

Manuél Ferrari > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
11/26/2013 at 13:04

It is scary because we have to rush to buy the classic cars that we can afford before they become unaffordable. Those 2000 GTVs have gone up so much. The BMW 2002s have gone up a lot too.

I think all the good classic RWD cars that were nimble are going up in value. Everybody wants them because modern cars have gotten so big and heavy. Classic cars may not be as safe in a crash but they are a lot of fun to drive. You don't even have to go that fast to have fun. My old man has an 82 911SC that he bought when it was about 6 years old and babied ever since. When I drive it I feel like I'm going fast even if I'm going the speed limit. It's so loud and bumpy and mechanical. You don't get that with modern cars.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Manuél Ferrari
11/27/2013 at 15:21

One mod that can be done to Lambos to improve the clutch life is to remove the AWD, plus it makes the cars handling more predictable. It isn't "hard" to remove the AWD either because it is all mechanical plus you get more power to the wheels as well. In my dream world, when I get a Murcie it is getting its AWD removed and a decatted straight pipe for ultimate powah(the exhaust used to get super hot in the Murcie so freeing things up actually helps quite a bit).

Anyway, enough about my dream car. It is good to know that the best option for these beasts is the manual. Hopefully in a few years time they will depreciate enough for me to nab one at around 100k, not cheap but I need to buy one. And I don't really know why.

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/27/2013 at 15:36

I didn't know it wasn't too hard to remove the AWD system. A RWD Murcie with decatted straight pipes would be awesome.

You are starting to see early MT Gallardos for about $100K or a little less in the US. Hell of a deal, especially since it's one of the most reliable Italian super sports cars out there (due to Ze German's influence).

I'm hoping the later years of the Gallardo fall to $100K as soon as possible. A 2009 Gallardo with the 6MT that came RWD from the factory would be awesome. There is the Balboni edition that was RWD and the bi-color edition that was RWD as well. From what I've read the handling is actually a bit less predictable in that car when it's RWD. But a lot of the reviewers liked it that way because driving the car was a little more scary and it demanded your full attention. Also I've read that the AWD version can be a little annoying when turning at parking lot speeds, and the steering feel is more pure with RWD.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Manuél Ferrari
11/27/2013 at 15:46

By not too hard I mean that it is still hard, but not impossible. It is literally all mechanical so you just have to remove the parts, however hard that my be.

I guess the twitchier handling makes sense, particularly in the V12 models which had a higher center of gravity(transmission was mounted in front of the engine which keeps wheelbase short but places the engine higher), I was going based off the fact that the AWD wasn't always on, and came in when it sensed traction loss at the rear. And yes, the loss of AWD does result in better and lighter steering.

2001 Murcielagos are actually going for around the 100K mark, which makes me very happy, hell Gallardos can be had for 90K. Not so great for owners, great for car guys! I can't wait to buy one in 10 years time(hopefully). It is going to be great!

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/27/2013 at 15:57

I see what you mean. It's not easy, but it's doable because the system is 100% mechanical. Hopefully it doesn't throw any warning lights when removed.

I didn't know the transmission was mounted in front of the engine. In most mid-engine cars there is a transaxle behind the engine. Interesting!

I wonder how low the price of the Aventador will go in 20 years time. I like that the transmission is so violent it can unsettle the car if you shift while cornering hard. MotorTrend docked the car points because of that, I give it points for that :)

YSI-what can brown do for you > Manuél Ferrari
11/27/2013 at 16:15

Yup, Lambo has done the reverse transmission thing since the Countach. It is kind of like tradition for them. It is still done in the Aventador.

I remember reading something on EVO with the Lambo group test, and they said the e-gear in the Murcie is much better suited for road driving, and they actually liked it more. The one in the Aventador makes some awesome sounds though on upshifts.

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
11/27/2013 at 16:27

Interesting. They switched things around in the Gallardo and had the transmission behind the engine. I need to read more about the V12 Lambos!